Subject: Re: Magic debate...


From ponch@wpi.edu Sun Feb 12 23:58:19 EST 1995
Article: 3087 of wpi.forsale
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!usenet
From: Seoungjae Yim < ponch@wpi.edu >
Newsgroups: wpi.forsale
Subject: Re: Magic debate...
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 16:23:23 -0500 (EST)
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 249
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: < Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU >
References: < 199502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU >
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I finally read a reply from a person who is eloquent, logical and have some sense of fairness to himself. It was quiet enjoyable to read this particular person's letter and since he (formally and respectfully) requested a reply, I'll reply to him and to the public who have read his first message in wpi.forsale. If you do not desire to read the following message please do not - but I can tell you now that I'll minimize any name calling or harsh words in order to get my point across without any prejudiced understandings.

On Sun, 12 Feb 1995, Jason L Perron wrote:

> 1.) While I believe there was nothing wrong with your first message
> asking if people were getting sick of the MAGIC stuff, you made a BIG
> mistake with the little comment about replying with your fists.  There
> was no reason for it and someone 'smarter than most of [us]' should have
> realized it. 
* yeah, I might have gotten carried away , I admit that. I'm man enough to admit my mistake and here, my apology to whoever might have felt any real physical threat.
> 
> 2.) There is a place for this complaining, it's called wpi.flame.
> Again, someone as smart as yourself should have known this and placed
> the remainder of your complaints there.  Continuing with this point,
> the 'Magic no more' thread was redirected to wpi.flame. However, this
> morning I look and you have posted a NEW thread to wpi.forsale.  Why?
> Is this yet another mistake from our alleged star student?
> 
* hmm... I'm not big on flaming (at least I wasn't). Wasn't interested enough to look for a flame newsgroup.
> 3.) Just curious, how old are you?  This nonsense about 'having balls'
> and 'responding with fists' implies that you are a VERY immature person.
> Also, are you new to the interent?  I see newbie crap like this all
> the time.
>
* I'm 18 - and I can't stand wasting the best year of my life here at WPI. I'm sure a lot of you out there can understand.
> 4.) 'geeks and freaks'?  Ooohh, name calling.  Yet another sign of your
> maturity and intelligence.
* hmmm... I'm not sure how else I can put them
> 
> 5.) I am assuming you have some sort of degree in martial arts.
> Posting messages that would offend most of the school and then
> implying you will fight anybody who takes you on is a sticking your
> neck out pretty far on the chopping block.  So, do you really feel
> confident you can take out anybody here?  What if one of the people
> you have pissed off is more insane than you and carries a gun?  Did
> you ever think about that?  Or, was is just another immature, foolish
> error on your part?
* Martial arts sounds like another stupid stereotype for asians, but I won't cry racism - do not even worry about that shit.

Am I confident that I can take on ANYONE? No. I go to fitness center and trust me, there are some horses here at WPI. But I can take on most people - especially the ones that I've offended. Again, I'm NOT planning on fighting anyone - unless he starts first.

> 
> 6.) In conclusion, I think you have done yourself more harm than good.
> Rather than showing you are really intelligent, you have showed you
> are pretty dumb.  You may have the brains on paper friend, but being
> smart is A LOT more than that.  You have also demonstrated that you
> have the maturity of an 8th grade bully.  I am glad you are leaving
> WPI, we don't need your trash here.  I can sum it all up in two words:
> 
> 			     GROW UP!!!
>
* sorry about that. have a good life here at good'ol Worcester!!!

And these are small replies to some other messages. Like I said before I would like to contact them individually and finish up what had started in most civilized manner as possible.

On Sat, 11 Feb 1995, Andrew Toppan wrote:

> :  Only one more thing to say for me, if you guys got balls to say
> : something, why not say it to my face?  Why do you have to flood the
> : newsgroup with dumb messages?  What you do is you press 'r' to reply.
>
> You started the flood. When you flame in public, be prepared to be
> flame in return, in public.
* True. But my first message was directed TO THE PUBLIC whereas all the replies were directed TO ME. Post it anywhre you want. If I cared about everyone's feelings I wouldn't have started this whole thing in the first place. Let's just stop bothering all others who don't care. At least, this is my last public message.
>Can't take a little criticism??  'run away! run away!'
* When you see a pile of shit, do you run away? No, you avoid it. I'm avoiding WPI. And do you know why I'm here? 'cause this is the only school I got in. I was planning on transfering before I got here. I'm paying a heavy price for slacking off in highschool.
On Sat, 11 Feb 1995, Roman Ptashka wrote:

> no truly intelligent person would post jibberish like this..  get a
life..
* I really wish I had a life. I won't be sitting here wasting time for all of us. Do you have a life? How did you find it?
From: Nat Fairbanks <nessus@WPI.EDU> 
To: ponch@WPI.EDU
Newsgroups: wpi.forsale
Subject: Re: Magic No More

Do you have some sort of stick up your ass?  It's only words buddy.
Cool down, and join the real world.
* although your message contains some harsh words, your point has been well taken. True, I could have ignored the craps coming in, but since they cared enough to send me a reply through the computer, I figured they wouldn't mind talking in person. I could respect and befriend the 'freaks' and 'geeks' but I really cannot stand COWARDS.
From: Adam J Egdall <brutus@WPI.EDU>
To: ponch@WPI.EDU
Newsgroups: wpi.forsale
Subject: Re: One last message (sorry to bother you all)

        Don't know what the hell you got flamed for but like you said,
keep it in email not on the forum.  I don't give a shit who you are or
how you feel and don't really care to read your senseless drivel in a
forum that has nothing to do with what you're talking about.  
* My deepest apology to Adam and the persons alike. But remember that my very first message was about the Magic Auctions - and this sort of (and I admit: not really) share the ground with wpi.forsale. But please remember that majority of the messages posted on wpi.forsale had not been from me. I tried hard to avoid it but I couldn't. I can promise you that This is my last B.S. message to wpi.forsale. Again I'm sorry for your inconvenience.
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 11:49:27 -0500
From: 'Shawn M. Pezzuto' <rougan@WPI.EDU>
To: Seoungjae Yim <ponch@wpi.edu>
Subject: One last message (sorry to bother you all)

Like Magic cards?  Just because you dont want to buy it doesn't mean
it shouldn't be posted.  Its sorta like all those cd auctions that
happen every now and again, Im talking the ones where you cant find
one good cd that theyre selling.  Sure Magic is more annoying, but
this the place for it.
* Magic represents something that's a real problem (or its uniqueness) about WPI and that's what's different from CD sales. I think you share very similar view of wpi as I do except that I snapped earlier than you. I made myself an asshole but I really don't care.
>Ahh we get to the crux of the problem, your mindset doesnt agree with
others, and you cannot deal with that.  
* You're correct. I can't.
>I think that is obvious.  No one wins.  
* I don't know if there will be winners or losers but I'm surely letting a lot of steam out.
From: Dave Rothgery <daveroth@WPI.EDU>
To: Seoungjae Yim <ponch@wpi.edu>


There are no *dumb* kids here.  This college is pretty hard to get into.  
What do you base your opinion that you are 'smarter' than most of the 
people who disagree with you?  IQ?  Standarized test scores?  Grades?  In 
any case, I know several Magic-playing wedge-dwellers who top almost anybody 
in the US.
* The key is that I said 'most,' which means that yes there are the ones that are so much smarter than I am - I met some of them in person. But when you say 'several wedge-dewllers' that's sort of a small number compared to 2800, isn't it?

I'm not bragging anything - dudes, I'm here because it's the only school I got in!!! Do you think my ego is still alive? I mentioned that 'smart' issue because I was attacking the nerdy population of WPI and their most common defense is calling back the offenders 'some dumb jealous bastards.' Is this not true? I'm studying hard in hope that this time I'll get into a school that I want to go to. If you still have to see some sort of proof of that 'smart' issue, my avg. in Calc V was about 100. But I worked for it.

> Being conservative has nothing to do with it.  I'm pro-life, 
ant-tax, pro-term limits, go to church on Sunday, and will probably vote 
for Phil Gramm in the Republican primaries next spring.  I also play 
Magic on weekends and kill most of my free time sitting at a computer.  
 
* I noticed a trend that a lot of these 'freaky' population are into that death-rock and anarchy and 'let's go kill your mom and dad' kind of things (I guess that's why I call them freaks). I find it very disturbing with all these social problems finally surfacing, what this might end up 20 years from now.

From: terrylee < terrylee@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>
Newsgroups: wpi.forsale, wpi.flame
Subject: Re: One last message (sorry to bother you all) 

Seoungjae Yim <ponch@wpi.edu> wrote:
[a large amount of mindless drivel and fourth-grade level threats and 
insults]

* I do not recall writing the above line. Someone else wrote to me in reply. And for the rest of your message, it was quiet entertaining.

Keep it up, babe!!! No wonder you guys love computers so much - you all get to be macho on computer screens!!!

**** In the closing note, I think a lot of us agree that WPI isn't the happiest place on Earth. Look at the food, the ugly campus and the mail office whose only excuse is 'the post office lost it' and the plant service which takes 3 - 1/2 months to fix up a broken drawer. Look at the weekend scene, the weather, the neighborhood, and many more (that you guys know already); then I snapped. No I do not get along with most people here and I do not want to, but I also reserve the right for you to hate me which is just the right that some of you are now practicing.

This just is not the place for me. I would like to tell the ones out there who are as discontented of WPI as I am to be brave and transfer; there are still some (but really not many) schools where you can get both good life and education.

Good luck to all of us.

p.s. To everyone who replied to my message - Josh Brandt, Andrew Toppan, Dave constantino, Aaron Mills,'dag','terrylee' and whoever else.

I'd still like to meet you guys and have a talk. I'm just the type of person who like to see things finish up himself. If you still have things to say, please contact me back and we'll chat. It could be a quiet one over a cup of coffee (although I probably wouldn't even want to see your face if you're what I imagine to be) or it could be a gun brawl out at the quad - whatever you want. But I'd really like to see you in PERSON after all. Pretty much anytime between 5-9 on weekdays are fine with me. Don't be COWARDS - I might respect you as a PERSON if I meet you but if you avoid it, you'll only be a SISSY.


From elmer@wpi.edu Mon Feb 13 00:01:01 EST 1995
Article: 2634 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!scooter.WPI.EDU!elmer
From: elmer@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate...
Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:17:43 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 132
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: < 3hm1e7$pdd@bigboote.WPI.EDU >
References: <199502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU > < Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: scooter.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Hooray! Another post to flame...... I think we need a different tactic here...so instead of telling you to fuck off I'll tell you to go to hell.

Seoungjae Yim (ponch@wpi.edu) wrote:

: to admit my mistake and here, my apology to whoever might have felt any 
: real physical threat.
Don't worry, none of us were in the least worried by your threats. I wasn't, I doubt Mike was, and Nat certainly wouldn't be worried. Go to hell.
: * I'm 18 - and I can't stand wasting the best year of my life here at WPI.
:    I'm sure a lot of you out there can understand.
Wasting? I don't think I'm wasting my time here. Go to hell.
: *  hmmm... I'm not sure how else I can put them    
How do you know we are geeks and freaks? There is no such thing as 'normal'. Go to hell.
: and trust me, there are some horses here at WPI.  But I can take on most 
: people - especially the ones that I've offended.  Again, I'm NOT planning 
	   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You obviously don't know Nat Fairbanks. But then again, he probably wouldn't waste his time with you. Go to hell.
: *  sorry about that.  have a good life here at good'ol Worcester!!!
We will. Go to hell.
: started in most civilized manner as possible.  
Why start being civilized now? You haven't been civilized yet. Go to hell.
: stop bothering all others who don't care.  At least, this is my last 
: public message.
You said that last time. Do you mean it this time? Go to hell.
: 'freaks' and 'geeks'  but I really cannot stand COWARDS.
So now we are cowards? I don't like being called a coward...I might actually get mad. I don't think that Nat would like being called a coward. Go to hell.
: me.  I tried hard to avoid it but I couldn't. I can promise you that This 
: is my last B.S. message to wpi.forsale. Again I'm sorry for your 
: inconvenience.
You said that last time. Do you mean it this time? Go to hell.
: *  Magic represents something that's a real problem (or its uniqueness) 
Magic is a problem?? I just don't get it. Go to hell.
: I made myself an asshole 
I'll agree with that. Go to hell.
: *  You're correct. I can't.
You can't deal with those who are different? What an immature attitude. Go to hell.
: *  I don't know if there will be winners or losers but I'm surely letting 
: a lot of steam out.
That's for sure. Go to hell.
:  I'm not bragging anything - dudes, I'm here because it's the only school 
: I got in!!! Do you think my ego is still alive?  I mentioned that 'smart' 
If you think wpi just isn't good enough for you then you should get out of here. Today if possible. Go to hell.
: issue because I was attacking the nerdy population of WPI and their most 
: common defense is calling back the offenders 'some dumb jealous 
: bastards.'  Is this not true?  I'm studying hard in hope that this time 
Nobody called you a 'dumb jealous bastard'. Go to hell.
: *  I noticed a trend that a lot of these 'freaky' population are into that 
: death-rock and anarchy and 'let's go kill your mom and dad' kind of 
: things (I guess that's why I call them freaks). I find it very disturbing 
I am none of those things. Some of us may be, but many of us are not. Go to hell.
: * I do not recall writing the above line.  
You didn't write it dumbass, someone wrote that instead of quoting your trash. Go to hell.
: ****  In the closing note, I think a lot of us agree that WPI isn't the 
: happiest place on Earth.  Look at the food, the ugly campus and the mail 
: office whose only excuse is 'the post office lost it' and the plant 
: service which takes 3 - 1/2 months to fix up a broken drawer.  Look at 
Ugly campus? Not really. You want to see ugly? Go to U Mass Amherst. I don't have any complaints about the mail office, I get my packages the day after they are mailed. Go to hell.
: the weekend scene, the weather, the neighborhood,  and many more (that 
The weather? You think this is bad? You should have seen it last winter. That was bad. Go to hell.
: I am to be brave and transfer; there are still some (but really not 
It really takes balls to fill out that form. Go to hell.
: quiet one over a cup of coffee (although I probably wouldn't even want to 
: see your face if you're what I imagine to be) or 
Do you think we look like some horrible monster on a magic card? I don't think most of us will take kindly to that remark. Go to hell.
: it could be a gun brawl 
: out at the quad - whatever you want.  
I think the police might object. Go to hell.
: you but if you avoid it, you'll only be a SISSY.
Calling names again? We might get mad if you do that. Go to hell.

Andrew, who is about to go to hel...err...ooops...DAKA.


From mute@sidehack.gweep.net Mon Feb 13 00:01:02 EST 1995
Article: 2636 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!sidehack.gweep.net!mute
From: mute@sidehack.gweep.net (Josh Brandt)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate...
Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:38:37 GMT
Organization: none
Lines: 7
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: <5hm2ld$ef@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
References: <599502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU> <Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU> <5hm1e7$pdd@bigboote.wpi.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sidehack.res.wpi.edu

Ah, a disciple! Learn well, my son...

Josh
--
Money spines paper lungs Kidney bingoes organ fun -- Wire
mute@hotblack.gweep.net -- J. Brandt


From mcmanus@cunnin.res.wpi.edu Mon Feb 13 00:01:30 EST 1995
Article: 2640 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!cunnin.res.wpi.edu!mcmanus
From: mcmanus@cunnin.res.wpi.edu (Pat McManus)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate...
Date: 12 Feb 1995 22:50:16 GMT
Organization: that cunnin' WPItech..
Lines: 23
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: <5hm3b8$1bd@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: cunnin.res.wpi.edu

last time on wpi.forsale, ponch@wpi.edu said.. 
>

>many) schools where you can get both good life and education.      

[..]

>p.s. To everyone who replied to my message - Josh Brandt, Andrew Toppan, 
>Dave constantino, Aaron Mills,'dag','terrylee' and whoever else.
                                ^^^
you're bitching about the lack of events and you don't even know who chris dag is?.. well maybe at your next school they'll hand you your life on a silver platter.

--
Patrick R. McManus Computer Science 1996
NYSERNet, Inc. mcmanus@nysernet.org mcmanus@wpi.edu
Check out the cunnin.res.wpi.edu gopher, web, and ftp servers.
--- Kill Nostalgia, Xenophobic Fears - It's Now or Never Land ---


From aaron@wpi.edu Mon Feb 13 00:01:32 EST 1995
Article: 2647 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!wpi.WPI.EDU!aaron
From: aaron@wpi.edu (Aaron J. Millis)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate... Coffee on Thurs?
Date: 13 Feb 1995 01:28:50 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 27
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: <5hmcki$d0g@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
References: <599502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU> <Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

: p.s. To everyone who replied to my message - Josh Brandt, Andrew Toppan, 
: Dave constantino, Aaron Mills,'dag','terrylee' and whoever else.
Man . . . you spelled my name wrong . . . sniff . . .
: things to say, please contact me back and we'll chat.  It could be a 
: quiet one over a cup of coffee (although I probably wouldn't even want to 
Actually, I would love to sit down and have coffee with all of you, as far as I can tell, most of you are pretty darn hoopy . . . I am short on cash, can someone else bring the ducktape?
: PERSON after all.  Pretty much anytime between 5-9 on weekdays are fine 
: you but if you avoid it, you'll only be a SISSY.
Well, I try to let my feminine side show.

As for times?
You all wanna maybe meet down at that little coffee place on highland? Or maybe that new one down behind city hall (they have phenom creme horns)

Academic Advising day is good for me . . . as long as its around 8-9

:)


From msanders@ataxia.confusion.net Mon Feb 13 00:01:33 EST 1995
Article: 2650 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!ataxia.confusion.net!msanders
From: msanders@ataxia.confusion.net (Michael K. Sanders)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate... Coffee on Thurs?
Date: 13 Feb 1995 02:30:09 GMT
Organization: The Confusion Network
Lines: 25
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: <5hmg7h$i4f@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
References: <599502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU> <Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU> <5hmcki$d0g@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ataxia.res.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Aaron J. Millis (aaron@wpi.edu) wrote:

: : p.s. To everyone who replied to my message - Josh Brandt, Andrew Toppan, 
: : Dave constantino, Aaron Mills,'dag','terrylee' and whoever else.

: Man . . . you spelled my name wrong . . . sniff . . .
And Dave's, too.
: far as I can tell, most of you are pretty darn hoopy . . . I am short on 
: cash, can someone else bring the ducktape?
I've got duct tape.
: : PERSON after all.  Pretty much anytime between 5-9 on weekdays are fine 
Allrighty then. Monday, 6:30 at Tech Pizza. We could always do the coffee thing Thursday, too.

--
Michael K. Sanders -- msanders@ataxia.res.wpi.edu

ataxia: NetBSD/Amiga 1.0 - Creating Chaos out of Anarchy for a Better Tomorrow
Confusion Central *under construction*


From aaron@wpi.edu Mon Feb 13 00:01:36 EST 1995
Article: 2651 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!linux.WPI.EDU!aaron
From: aaron@wpi.edu (Aaron J. Millis)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate... Coffee on Thurs?
Date: 13 Feb 1995 02:37:41 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 8
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: <5hmgll$j61@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
References: <599502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU> <Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU> <5hmcki$d0g@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <5hmg7h$i4f@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linux.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

: : cash, can someone else bring the ducktape?

: I've got duct tape.
but is it ducktape brand duct tape?

the one with the little yellow duck on the inside of the rolls?


From msanders@ataxia.confusion.net Mon Feb 13 00:01:38 EST 1995
Article: 2653 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!ataxia.confusion.net!msanders
From: msanders@ataxia.confusion.net (Michael K. Sanders)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate... Coffee on Thurs?
Date: 13 Feb 1995 03:05:43 GMT
Organization: The Confusion Network
Lines: 13
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: <5hmia7$lc3@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
References: <599502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU> <Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU> <5hmcki$d0g@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <5hmg7h$i4f@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <5hmgll$j61@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ataxia.res.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Aaron J. Millis (aaron@wpi.edu) wrote:

: but is it ducktape brand duct tape?
: the one with the little yellow duck on the inside of the rolls?
No little yellow ducks... But there is some 'Duck brand Tape' lying around the appt.

--
Michael K. Sanders -- msanders@ataxia.res.wpi.edu

ataxia: NetBSD/Amiga 1.0 - Creating Chaos out of Anarchy for a Better Tomorrow
Confusion Central *under construction*


From elmer@wpi.edu Mon Feb 13 00:01:41 EST 1995
Article: 2654 of wpi.flame
Path: bigboote.WPI.EDU!scooter.WPI.EDU!elmer
From: elmer@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan)
Newsgroups: wpi.flame
Subject: Re: Magic debate... Coffee on Thurs?
Date: 13 Feb 1995 03:15:26 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 13
Distribution: wpi
Message-ID: <5hmise$lqq@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
References: <599502121619.LAA04008@res.WPI.EDU> <Pine.ULT.3.90.950212143143.17146E-100000@lizardo.WPI.EDU> <5hmcki$d0g@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <5hmg7h$i4f@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <5hmgll$j61@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: scooter.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

: : : cash, can someone else bring the ducktape?

: : I've got duct tape.
Nat and I were considering giving him a swimming lesson--but we were going add a bit of chain to the ankles first. The water is really pleasant this time of year, if you are an eskimo.

Andrew, who knows how cold the ocean was back in October, and still refuses to repeat his graceful trip into the harbor just so Nat can see it. It isn't my fault your back was turned!


Mike " the victim" Sanders and Pat " the conspirator" McManus